SPEAKER_00 0:00

Being able to know who you have in front of you so you can best fit their communication and style will make it have a more authentic and more personable relationship, which is ultimately the goal for both people. I do know what I'm talking about. I go deeper than most. People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. This isn't a complaint session. We need more successful chiropractors out there.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

It showed me how far-reaching chiropractic and what we do can be.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

I think it's something that everybody needs to get. Welcome back to Beyond Adjustments, the podcast where we go beyond the adjustment. Because apparently cracking backs alone just wasn't enough chaos for us. But all right, so before we jump in, I've got to tell you, this episode, we almost lost it. Like gone, vanished, kind of floating somewhere in the digital graveyard next to MySpace and first fantasy football championship. Anyway, technical issues. I I tried to fix it. It literally just tried to take us out. Anyway, audio gremlins, the home line. And for a minute, it looked like this conversation with Dr. Aminta Phelps and Dr. Juan Escobar might never see the light of day. But, but, but clear cut podcasting stepped in. Like the Avengers of like audio and video uh rescue just came right in. And seriously, Chris and the team over at Clear Cut worked their magic, stitching this kind of back together, upscaled it, salvaged it, and honestly, probably saved me from uh a minor emotional breakdown because I really did want this episode to go live. But anyway, I'm glad they did because there is way too much good in this episode to kind of let it disappear. So we're talking real conversations, real insight, real perspective, and the kind of stuff that actually matters. So shout out to Clearcut Podcasting for proving that not all heroes wear capes, some just wear headphones and fix my mess. Okay, let's get into it. Welcome back to Beyond Adjustments. I'm Amin Said and today's round table, not so round, maybe triangle, uh, isn't about techniques, marketing, or modalities. It's about growth. Personal, clinical, and sometimes painful growth. We could title this one lessons from the other side of graduation, because if you've been in practice for any length of time, you know the real curriculum starts after the diploma is on the wall. This isn't a complaint session. It's it's not about bashing schools or proving what should have been taught. It's about insight and what it takes to evolve when you're face to face with patients, pressure and uncertainty. Joining me today are two chiropractors who've been through it and have the wisdom and scars to prove it. With me are Dr. Juan and Dr. Arminta. I am so, so, so glad you guys were able to join me today. Um, but I'd like to throw it over to you guys to just give a quick introduction, if you don't mind. Dr. Arminta, we'll start with you.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Hey there, guys. I'm Dr. Arminta. Um, I'm owner of Achieve Balance Chiropractic. We are in Columbia, Missouri. We've been practice for 17 years and have owned and operated from day one.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Excellent. Dr. Juan.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Yeah, I'm Dr. Juan. Uh, I am the owner of ESCO Elite Sports Chiropractic Optimization here in Fort Mill, South Carolina. And I specialize in conservative knee treatments and I've been practicing for about five years.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Excellent. Excellent. Thank you both for being here. I'm going to start simple. All right, we'll call this one a little bit of an icebreaker. Uh, what's one thing you thought you understood in school but saw completely different once you got into practice?

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Yeah, I would say uh bridging the gap between the misconceptions of chiropractic and what chiropractic actually is, being able to educate patients, learn how to communicate effectively, uh, which then ties into communicating through marketing and how to get new patients to the door and how to be able to retain patients as well.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

We're gonna kind of focus on the shift, right, from student to doctor. Okay, so we're gonna rewind uh just a little bit, right? Maybe just a couple months to those early days after graduation. Um, you know, everybody's excited, you know, idealistic, uh totally unprepared in their own way. Um, but let's touch on that moment, right? So what hit you the hardest, right, during your first year in practice, Dr. Juan?

SPEAKER_02 5:01

Yeah, so for me, I graduated in a very interesting point in history, which was right during COVID or shortly before COVID. Um, so I I got hit with that right at the gate. Um, so it was navigating that and then navigating ownership. Well, I would say quotation marks ownership. I was the clinic director of a practice for a non-chiropractor. So I basically did everything in the practice, and I didn't really have a mentor or anybody um to my side that could guide me through um those learning hur hurdles, uh, your first year of practice. So it felt like I was uh, you know, a business owner out the gate and being able to, you know, go through obstacles with certain patients or certain cases, um, you know, that was a challenge. Um, so for me it was navigating COVID, navigating being uh quasi-business owner, uh, and then the normal progressions of a new practitioner.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

W was there a specific patient for you that kind of made you rethink everything?

SPEAKER_02 6:08

I wouldn't say there's a specific case, but um a lot of similar cases come to mind in the sense that it showed me how far-reaching chiropractic and what we do can be. Um, you know, when I got out of school, I thought it was gonna help with low back pain, neck pain, um, certain neurological things. Um, but to see how a patient's just light up, how patients' lives are completely changed, um really uh opened my eyes to the power of chiropractic and what we can do um is far more reaching than what I initially expected. Um so you know, things like allergies being gone, people um that have had migraines for years, not having those migraines anymore, um, people that couldn't sleep are now sleeping, um, and how that impacts their daily lives and impacts their family and their relationships. So I would say that's that's one of the big things that I've noticed um just out of school, out the gate.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

So yeah, for for me as the layman, right, the guy who knows probably 2% of what you guys know, like the the way I used to think about chiropractic is the way most people unfortunately think about chiropractic is going in for back pain and neck pain. But I I see it in my own life. Like I I literally feel like I have more energy if I'm getting regular adjustments. I feel like my allergies are better, like you said, Dr. Juan. Like it's it's that it's not about, you know, it it's about understanding what what the spine actually is, what the what your how your brain communicates with your body, all that, all those pieces put together and the effects that it has on your body is I think it's something that everybody needs to get because it it'll really it'll change their life, honestly. So yeah, I love I love I loved your answer. Thank you for that. All right, can we just acknowledge something real quick? If you're still here, first off, excellent life choices, literally excellent life choices. But second, you're probably realizing why we fought so hard to save this episode. This conversation, it's just too good. But in the spirit of keeping the lights on, feeding the kids, and preventing me from having to start a side hustle as a street magician, I would actually be decent. I'm lying, it would be terrible and you wouldn't give me any money. But this episode is brought to you by AI Local Boost. Listen, being amazing at what you do is it's important. It really is. But if your future patients can't find you on Google, if your future clients can't find you uh uh in their area, you're basically the world's best kept secret. And we can't have that unless obviously you're Batman, that's probably not helping your business. But I I dude, my dad jokes, they just they're terrible. Even when I'm trying to uh pay the bills, but AI Local Boost helps business owners actually show up, right? So your Google business profile, uh the the optimization of it, your posts, the reviews, the images, all the stuff you know you should be doing, but somehow keeps getting pushed off or below the I'll do it tomorrow, right? Because let's be honest, most businesses don't fail because they aren't good enough. They struggle because they're too busy doing the work to market the work, right? So if you want to stop hiding on page three of the Google Map results, like it's witness protection, check out AI Local Boost. All right, bills paid. Let's get back to this amazing episode. We operate out of this um this place of well, now I have all this education and I know what I'm doing, and I'm ready to go, and I operate in that and from that lens. Uh, but then there's there's a shift. It could be a week in, it could be five years in, it could be 17 years in, right? Um, where you literally stop operating like a student and then you start operating like that profession. And in your case, being a doctor, being a chiropractor. So when did you kind of stop or do you feel like that shift happened for you? Um, Dr. Arminta.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

I believe that shift was um is was pretty early on. You knew you have to um have a sense of authority and a sense of certainty, um, especially when you have a person's life in front of you. Like, are you gonna do them the service that they deserve um by telling them the truth and expanding their um knowledge about what we do and saying um we can definitely help you with X, Y, and C if obviously if you can, but did you also know that? Um, and giving them the ability to um expand into that and with just absolute certainty, not skittishness, not omin and on, but um with ownership of what you gift and talent that you have stored in these hands of yours?

SPEAKER_01 11:24

I love that. I personally have heard some doctors tell me, like, school trained me to think like critically, I guess would be the right word there. Uh, but it didn't train me for being the one responsible and the patient's not getting better. Like, how do you navigate that? How do you communicate that to a patient? How do you tell them that, okay, I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing? Are you doing what you're supposed to be doing? Like in some cases, they have, I don't know, home exercises that they have to keep up with or mindset shifts or whatever the case may be. That's the real world stuff that you're not taught in school. So yeah, love both your answers. Thank you for that. And that kind of takes me into that communication piece, right? Because that's a big part of a practice or of being a chiropractor is communication because you're talking to real people, you're talking to humans. Um, and you know, it's not like you're talking to, you know, Chat GPT where it's just gonna answer you what you need and whatnot, right? So, so let's talk about that. Let's talk about let's talk about language, because clinical knowledge is one thing, right? But but translating that into something your patient actually hears is another. So, so Dr. Juan, what's the biggest communication adjustment you've made since school or since maybe shifting from one practice to another?

SPEAKER_02 12:48

For me, it would have to definitely be empathy. Being able to show patients empathy allows you to create a deeper connection with patients. Uh, and so for me, it's like asking patients more questions as opposed to talking to them, um, really trying to find the real answer behind all those layers and really getting to know the patient individually so that you can come up with the best recommendation that's gonna suit their specific needs, and it doesn't come across like this generic thing that you basically do for everybody. Um, so just being opening, open to listening, I think listening is is huge. A lot of uh I know I made that mistake initially coming out of school was um just over talking or over-explaining things and not enough listening. Um so I think once I made that shift of being more empathetic, which then led to me listening more to my patients, um I saw a huge uh change in my communication style and the understanding and the grasp that the patients took from what I was trying to convey.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Would would you say that that the overexplaining piece for you is that did that have anything to do with you um kind of ha showing the patient that you understand or you know, like, or just or is it just because of how complex it is?

SPEAKER_02 14:12

I think uh initially coming out of school, you're you're not as confident as you are further in your career. And so you want to establish yourself as someone that is knowledgeable in in their craft. Uh, and so foolishly you think that the more you can talk about something or the more you can explain something and it's more uh nuanced, then you will sound more like an expert. And so I think maybe I fell into that trap of like wanting to showcase that I do know what I'm talking about. I'm not your type of chiropractor. Um, you know, I I go deeper than than most. So I think that's the trap I fell into initially. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

How about you, Dr. Arminta?

SPEAKER_00 14:57

I think that it came a lot with um who do I have in front of me? What kind of person do I have in front of me? What kind of personality do I have in front of me changes how I'm gonna um communicate with that person. And I think that that was a big style. Like I, you know, did a lot of like like that cookie cutter model in the very beginning where it's like the same thing and the same thing, and like being able to know who you have in front of you so you can best fit their communication and style will make it have a more authentic and more personable relationship, which is ultimately the goal for both people, because this is hoping to be long-term. It's hoping to be, I mean, we are really um diving deep into your quality of life, what your you know, needs, wants, desires are for you to get from where you are to where you'd like to be. Um, and how can we make our ability to talk to you as easy to your ears, as honey to your ears, um, and not just have it be like everybody else?

SPEAKER_01 16:02

That makes sense. And that to me also tells me that if you're speaking to patient A, John, and then and then Mary comes in and you're speaking to them in the same manner, um, you know, John's a 55-year-old, you know, vet, you know, and Mary's a 22-year-old just fresh out of college, they're gonna have different needs, their communication styles are gonna be different, right? And kind of what you're saying points to that is um the adjustment is knowing that again, there's a human in front of you and their needs are gonna be different, and what you know, their communication style is gonna be different. And if you go into it saying, you know, here's my here's my, you know, framework, this is what I do, right? You might have to ask question one to patient A, but then question five to patient B to start the conversation, because you need to know where, you know, where where they what they need and why they need it, right? Get to the root of things. Dr. Juan, along the same lines of kind of speaking differently, right, to different types of patients, how do you handle that yourself?

SPEAKER_02 17:17

I mean, it it really depends on on who's in front of me, much like she said. Um I um, you know, I really just let them speak first. I I get a feel for for who they are. Um, what they do also plays a big factor into it. Because what I try to do is I try to take their world and then use different analogies that are comparable to what they do and what they understand already. So that way it just makes it so much easier for them to grasp things, I I find. Um, and so that's it's it's all about who you're talking to and understanding and like just reading the room, uh, what is their their position and putting yourself in their shoes, knowing that perspective, and then going from there.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

That kind of ties also into the trust aspect, right? Um, because you can you can easily lose a patient like this in the first 30 seconds of your conversation. Um, especially if you have somebody that walked in that's, you know, a little skeptical, or maybe they're frustrated, or they're worried, or they're scared, or whatever the case may be. So how do you how do you earn that trust with somebody who might be any of those things?

SPEAKER_00 18:30

You're gonna find out who they are and what they're all about. Just like um one was saying, it's um, it is so this isn't about you, doctor. It's about them. Like they're coming in for your service and you're there to serve them. Um, so it is your job to really like people don't know care how much you know until they know how much you care. You have to not just act authentic, but just really be authentic. And I think that that is a big gap of what sets people off of what a successful chiropractor looks like, and then somebody that's not successful, that's more robotic in nature or um that is more worried about themselves or what they're gonna get on the back end of it, instead of like, what am I doing for this individual in front of me? Okay, so it's God brought this person to me. What am I supposed to be doing here to be able to get them and their um their problem solved, also while educating them on the the broader and the bigger aspect of it too. Um and like I think that that's what's so unique about chiropractic in itself is we really do life with our patients and we we take our patients home in our pockets, you know. They're like they we we wear them on our sleeves there, or they mean something to us. It's they become part of our fabric, um, if you would. Um, and it's because we care. Um, and I think that that's you know, I think that that's a profession setting apart, and definitely within the profession, what sets, you know, the people apart that um uh that their concern is we can't see them all, um, versus where are every where's why I can't get enough patients in the door? Um check yourself first, where are you coming from?

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Yeah, that's good. That's really good. Would you guys say that um patients rarely ask about the science, but like they're they would normally or they yeah, they would normally respond to like to the clarity, to the confidence, to the consistency, to you know, meeting them where they're at. Would you agree to that?

SPEAKER_00 20:34

They're gonna want to know some of them are gonna want to know science. Like, so again, who do we have in front of us? Do I have an analytical mind in front of me, somebody that's really into uh like the curve is supposed to be at this angle, this is supposed to be at this, you know, that some people really want some of that information. And some people, you know, they just want to know you love them. Um, and I think that knowing that you love them, because that's ultimately how we can really serve, um, but also having the knowledge to back up what you're saying behind behind it. Um, and it everybody's gonna be a little different in that scenario. Some people are gonna want to know more science, um, but everybody wants to know that um they're cared for.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

I love what you said about the love aspect, right? That you that you are kind of caring for them and kind of loving on them. Um and chiropractic aside, that interaction, that one encounter that you have with that one person might be the only encounter that they have where one they'll feel like they're being paid attention to, right? That's one. And then two, um feeling loved, right? And you you also made another comment about you know, God um sending that person to you for a reason, right? Yeah, it's because they're in pain or whatever, but But um it could be that they're there because they need to be shown I'm sorry to say it this way on a chiropractic podcast, but the love of Jesus, for example, right? Um but but the point is that if you make them the the if you make them uh the priority and um the focus, I think it it works wonders. Um even with mediocre care, honestly, because a lot of the stuff that we walk through um is mindset and it's things that are holding us back, it's things that are weighing heavy down on our heart and our brain. And um, yeah, I love so I I love your approach, uh, Dr. Arminta. Thank you for that. Um, let's shift gears a little bit here, kind of get into the practicality of it. You know, you have there's there's judgment that comes into play, there's uh instinct uh as well, there's adaptation, right? Because, you know, school will give you the framework, but but real life, yeah, that's when the gray areas show up, right? You know, we've been we've been talking about that the entire time. But um, let let's get a little uh again more practical. Was there a case, for example, where you followed the protocol, right? Uh, but your gut told you something else, right? Maybe even like mid-assessment, right? Is there anything like a can you does a patient jump out at you when I say that? Like some a story that you can share with us, Dr. Juan?

SPEAKER_02 23:28

Uh, I would say coming from a school that was very uh not philosophical at all, very uh science-based. Um for me initially, it was uh quite a drastic shift because I fell into a franchise that was basically only philosophically based and not really kind of throwing out all the scientific and assessments that I was taught in school. So having to forego doing a lot of those assessments initially was a big um just a big shock uh to me and learning how to navigate that, um, going only on what I see on an X-ray versus actually getting my hands on a patient, feeling things, doing certain orthopedic exams, doing neurological exams, uh, different things of that nature. Um, I I didn't get to do that. And so right out the gate, it was trying to navigate that and figuring out, okay, how do I assess a patient? And in this, in this scenario, it's a very high volume type of practice. So trying to figure out how do I manage all these cases that I'm currently seeing and how do I diagnose uh based on X-ray. Well, sometimes I'd have to, many cases I'd have to do a little bit more than that um and kind of bypass what the franchise was telling me to do so that I can get to a true assessment, a true outcome. Um so I can prescribe the correct treatment because again, going back to the cookie cutter um analogy, if you're if you're doing the same thing for every single person, um, not everybody's gonna get well. Some will, but not everybody. So figuring out how to cater that to the people that needed it at the time.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Yeah. Dr. Arminta, have have you ever had to, you know, break the rules uh to do what you felt kind of right for a specific patient?

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Um, I don't know about breaking the rules. Like, I like to break the rules anyway. It's like let's go. We like, aren't we chiropractors? We should go, we go with like only dead fish go with the stream, you know, kind of thing. But um when it comes to like different protocols that didn't work and things like that, I think that some of that comes into um where I noticed it big time was some technique um aspects. So I am a pomegrad. So um very much um we, you know, moving bones. Um we're definitely manual adjusting a lot of the times. We didn't do a ton of instrument work um there. Um, and one of the things that I learned outside of practice once I got um into practice was some tonal techniques that were more gentle and more easy on the nervous system than manual. And, you know, so I had an extra tool in my toolbox to be able to use. And I remember having this one gal come into our office and wait, I mean, I learned the technique maybe like a month ago, got certified, like we were fresh, she was fresh into it. And she got pulled into my office and um she was just too wired. And my whole gut was like, do not adjust her atlas the way you want to adjust, the way your ego wants to take her neck and adjust her atlas, you know, it's seated Gonstead style. Um, my intuition just lit up like Christmas tree, you gotta do some tonal work on her. So we used um torque release technique, if you're familiar with that technique, um, to help unwind that dural tension on her nervous system. And um, her husband about wanted to, you know, come out of his, he's like, that's it, that's all you're gonna do. Like, yes, sir, that's all I'm gonna do. Um, and he was expecting more, but you know, sometimes less is more. And um, that was a really good um outcome after that adjustment. And it just really proves that sometimes less into that system is um what that system needs. It's not always more.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

Man, what a conversation. Somehow, against all odds, we actually saved it. Huge, huge thanks to Dr. Arminta and Dr. Juan for uh bringing the heat and of course the clear cut podcasting for basically performing CPR on this episode from a technical perspective, of course. But don't go anywhere because we're just getting started here. Part two is coming next week, and trust me, you're gonna want it. Thanks for watching Beyond Adjustments, and we'll see you in part two.